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I'm with Tyrion on this one. Burning people alive is horrifying, everybody hated it when Arys or Stannis did that, but when Daenerys burns a 100 people all first time viewers are on board
"I don't need to be watched over or minded or cared for..."
...says the woman who needed Theon and Brienne to save her last season.
I mean, she doesn't have any fighting prowess, and has spent the first 6 seasons be manipulated and played as a pawn. This is why her arc in seasons 5 and 6 really annoyed me. In the finale of season 4 she has her first real act of agency by lying to cover to Baelish killing her aunt. Seasons 5 and 6 should have been her building on that so that her season 7 placement is believable. Instead, she slips back into victimhood and being a pawn, then her turnaround is FAR too sudden this season.
Wow... I always hated the Sansa and Arya sister drama of season 7 and thought it was pointless and forced..but after listening to you guys talk about it.. it really makes so much sense now, its very important to their characters and everything they've endured it in different ways
On the subject of Targarayen incest, Aegon the Conqueror had two wives, and both were his sisters. He is who united the lands in westeros into the 7 kingdoms.
Also, the theme for the citadel is my favorite. " Im tired of reading about the achievements of better men." is an absolute banger.
They foreshadowed the dragon with the bear.
Robert used a war hammer. And they don’t really talk about this in the show but Robert was one of the greatest warriors ever. He beat rhagar targarayen and is put up there with Jamie and sir barristan.
In WW2, the Japanese killed their prisoners. The US always captured their prisoners and treated them well. the Germans ate better as a POW with the Americans sometimes than on the battlefield.
The Japanese took POWs, but they definitely weren't treated well and yes, often they were executed. There's several reasons for this. One being that the Japanese viewed surrender as highly dishonorable, and that someone willing to engage in it instead of die for their country was lower than a dog. Another reason was a feeling of racial inferiority. The Japanese did not feel like they were treated as equals on the world stage, and so returned the animosity. And finally, their military structure was largely autonomous, with mighty influence over the government, resulting in more aggressive and abhorrent action.
On the flip side, Japanese who surrendered to Allied forces largely felt as though they were cleaved from Japan forever by that action, for the aforementioned cultural reasons. Which encouraged U.S. forces to treat them well.
But also, keep in mind, that U.S. forces were reluctant to take Japanese POWs up until programs were put in place from May 1944 onwards to encourage frontline troops to do so. Prior to that, surrendering Japanese soldiers were more often gunned down by American troops, out of suspicion of a trap or just general reluctance to take the enemy prisoner.
Sansa, honestly, if you look at the books is much worse (especially in Book One). During Robert's death/Ned's attempted coup, she is actually the one to go and alert the Lannisters, because Ned was going to take her away from her 'precious' Joffrey, and Sansa wanted Cersei to try and convince him or order him not to. So, even if Littlefinger's scheme hadn't occured and he had backed Ned, she would have given Cersei an entire night to get the Lannister forces in KL in order and in fortified positions to hold of Ned and the others.
The time skips in episodes are nothing new. People conveniently forget about the time skips in season 1. Robert travelled from Kings Landing to Winterfell in the same episode. Ned and his family reached Kings landing in episode 3 after leaving Winterfell in Episode 2. Daenerys reached Vaes Dothrak from Pentos, which is roughly the same distance as Dorne to the Wall in like 2 or 3 episodes. Complaints about the distance travelled in a single episodes are weak complaints because it's already happened plenty of times and no one cared back then.
If I recall correctly, none of those time skips had a band of people with no food, warmth or shelter waiting on a tiny frozen island in the middle of an in-land lake.
The problem isn't how many episodes it takes to move from one location to another, it's whether or not it makes sense within the context of the world and RELATIVE to how the other characters also move through time. This was easier in the early seasons, because we only had a limited number of characters, and we knew their locations and what they were doing during the time skips, and it made sense. Whereas a band of people stuck on that frozen lake for the weeks it would take to get a message to Dany and have her fly back does NOT make sense.
I'd argue we have better context of time passage in most of those, not all, and the frequency in this season makes it far more egregious and obvious. And i don't hate this season, but it's one thing that gets too difficult to ignore at times.
It's that people want to have a preconceived agenda to hate on season 8 and later seasons
I had problems with season 5 long before it became popular to hate on Game of Thrones. And I had MAJOR problems with season 7. If you remember, people were still very much in love with the show this season.
So it's hardly an agenda. I'd argue everyone in this comments section loved the show and wanted it to end beautifully, with the same quality that existed in the earlier seasons.
the plot armour is INSAAAAANE
Just so you guys know even by boat it should take them atleast a month to get to the wall Dragonstone is in the southern part of the kings by kings landing the wall is past damn there the entire of the north this was the season where they said fuck it and decided to use fast travel because it should have taken them forever to get to the wall and back
So did you forget Robert back in season 1 where he literally traveled from Winterfell to King's Landing in the same episode?
But they show that took time. It's mentioned and they're shown to have stopped on the way. It's actually an example of how to do time skips well.
TheEmpyreanSpeaks For amazing in-depth “what if” scenarios and lore from the shows and books.
Robert Baratheon used a warhammer
So this is where people REALLY started to get pissed off with the writers. In the lore/history:
> Dragons REFUSED to cross the wall in the past. No matter how much their rider tried to make them, they wouldn't go. And now daenerys' dragons just go there no worries.
> The wall was built with magics to keep the white walkers from crossing it, thus why is everyone so convinced the army of the dead even going to get through anyway? If the white walkers were able to do that they probably would have tried it several times in the last thousand years.
> So now they were literally handed a dragon (who should not have flown past the wall anyway) which gave them the ability to destroy the wall.
> The dead were clearly shown not being able to swim or re-surface when the ice broke. So how the hell did they go down there to chain up the dragon? Where did the massive chains come from in the first place? Did they have them on standby????
> When Bran worgs into the birds, he sees the army of the dead and the night king in that EXACT spot where Jon and the crew end up stuck. Which means the night king was baiting them into going there in the first place knowing dragons would come, so he could get one. Can the night king see everything as Bran does???? and if that's the case, then why didn't Bran see that would happen in the first place.
I could rant about much more but i'll stop there lol.
Does the first time for everything. Just because dragons in the past never went beyond the wall doesn't mean at some point dragons wouldn't decide to go beyond it it's not like it's etched in stone where forever and all time dragons don't go beyond the wall no matter what.
the books basically described it in a way that it seemed like they were repelled by the wall, like the magic that was imbued in the wall literally made it so they *couldn't* make it past. So in the books, no, not really.
where did they get the chains from? there is no way they were forgedf noth of the wall, even kings landing doesnt haven something like that
so gendry run 100 miles the raven flew to dragonstone and dany flies back to them in 1 or 2 days?
Is there any wilder than Robert traveling from Winterfell to King's Landing in the same episode back in season 1?
oh man I'm actually not ready to see this again :'(
(Ignoring the horrendous plot holes)
You don't have to watch it
I have both bluray and 4k discs. Never had problem like you guys has. But I always play on bluray players, never on ps5.
Two things still give me major ick this season: the forced drama between Arya and Sansa and the "budding" romance between the aunt and nephew but whatever, I'm still more pissed at the execution of Viserion's death than anything at least in this episode. There was a perfectly perched dragon w people still climbing onto his back and the Night King goes for the one in the air for some reason -- sure you could say he went for Viserion because he was actively torching wights at the time but they couldve made it so everyone manages to get onto Drogon, all three dragons start to fly off but the Night King throws a spear anyway and hits Viserion that way. Like it's not the fact that he got a dragon, many people had expected/predicted a "wight dragon" since Dany landed on Westeros -- no it's how it happened that got people scratching their heads. There'll be some more instances of that sentiment throughout the remaining episodes unfortunately, of people being pissed not because it happened, but by the way it happened (it's me, I'm people).
This is when people started to despise Benioff and Weiss (the showrunners) because they rejected the offer of having the regular amount of episodes because Disney offered them a deal to make something out of Star Wars, which never actually happened anyways because they then rejected THAT deal for one with Netflix.
Also, John does get hurt by fire because he threw a lantern onto the first wight he encounters in like season 1 or something and burned his hand.
I keep waiting for the moment when the other foot drops and the guys realize why no one was happy with the show ending.
I'm not sure you're going to get it until the second last episode of season 8. lol
He pulled a near mint Blue Eyes White Dragon bro!
Lol their reaction at the end of episode 6 when they realized. And Sean did mention it earlier.
Also lol at them saying how Daenerys hasn't been called Khaleesi anymore yet earlier in the same episode one of the Dothraki called her Khaleesi when Jorah got back to Dragonstone.
Also my opinion on the teleporting issue: I'm with Ruff, I think it was just time skips between scenes. And if the writers decided not to rush things + got more seasons, then the journeys probably would have been drawn out across several episodes. But I never really had a problem with this, I just assumed it was just time skips.
Looking forward to the finale.
I’m gonna be honest- the undead dragon was the most obvious thing the series has done. Literally something you should have expected after seeing that both the White Walkers and Dragons existed in the show.
Whats the point of your comment? Other then making youself feel good by showing people how "dumb" they are.
If you freeze frame the 2nd ice spear comes inches from hitting all our favorite characters, except John.
davos and podrick werent there either
"tyrion needs a win because al his ideas have gone wrong. if the proof goes well and cercei helps then deanerys trusts him again" oh man guys you have no idea....
Many have considered episode 6 of season 7 to be one of the weakest episodes of GOT up til this point, from what you pointed out on how people are able to travel faster than usual. HBO wanted to give the show runners more episodes of they needed it but they didn't want it. Episode 6 has the problem that the plan is something that doesn't make any sense for this type of show, one more episode left and then one more season
Always those gosh darn Ice Mage Necromancers "He Can't Keep Getting Away With It". Great episode, can`t wait for the next Episodes, to rewatch them.
the suicide squad is here!
A 15oz bird could NOT carry a 10lb bomb!
Boom has discovered one of the issues with the later seasons. people teleporting
The "time has passed" excuse isn't even viable at this point because unless dragons can fly 3000 mph, there's no way John's group would be alive lol
55:07
thats been a common complaint about season 7 feeling rushed
in seasons past when characters would take long journeys like that, you wouldn't always see them actually going there, but you wouldnt hear/see them for an episode or two, so it felt like some amount of time had passed, to allow for the journey, this season and the next people kinda just teleport lol
I believe in order to warg into something, it has to be of lower intelligence. Since Hodor was mentally disabled, he was able to be controlled. And dragons in both myth and this series are highly intelligent creatures, so I doubt they could be warged.
Thought you guys might ve interested in hearing some of the (non-spoilery) reasons people started to say this season was when GOT fell off. I don't really agree with alot of these but here you go:
-plot was happening too quickly. For 7 episodes this season, a lot happens and ppl began to feel like the ending was being rushed
-we don't really see much travel anymore, people kinda just end up in places
-some characters have MC energy now, as in before you didn't know who would live or die. People began to complain this season that some characters had plot armor.
-Tyrion got dumb - people felt like Tyrion got nerfed because he made decisions that wound up bad for Dany. Also I think most ppl watching didn't think his plan of capturing a walker would sway Cersei
-magic becoming more prominent - In earlier seasons, magic is there but is so sparse most people didnt think it existed. Sometimes spells didnt even work. Now with flaming swords and resurrecting dragons, people felt more like they were watching Lord of the Rings than GoT
-Euron - folks just did not like that guy
even the acotrs made fun of their characters in season 8
Go large muscular teenager who has never been in the snow. You are the most qualified to run this vast distance to deliver this crucial message!
Seriously, Tormund has literally spent his whole life in that shit 😂
Sean is completely right the characters now teleport around the world when in earlier season it would take characters the entire season to get from Point A to B. One moment Tyrion in the Reach thousands of miles from Dragonstone the next he is back talking with Ser Jorah, same with Jon at East Watch when it took Stannis several episodes.
did the cloak not arrive?
I feel like Sam is always getting shit on by most and he thinks he needs to better himself. I’d say my man has gone above and beyond. Granted I think his time as a servant at the citadel would be better spent with him studying with actual mentors. I see he assists and learns from the arch maester but he still doesn’t take him seriously enough. He doesn’t have years to do the whole process, but it is a process and it’s proven effective because he learned how to cure Jorah.
Why not shoot at the one all of the main characters are standing on? Why did Jon just run off to fight wights on the lake? Why could he get out of the water and no wights were right by? Why did Benjen not ride with him? This is all so conveluted and stupid.
Omg this episodes still get me! And it guts me that we lost a dragon!
BTW, I have a recommendation for a lore video channel once you're done-- Alt Shift X. You can see his thought process and predications as he watches through the show with everyone else. Periodically he'll take a tangent to explain things.
1:51:45 Tormund is engulfed by undead, then at 1:51:47 he falls down backwards and only has 1 on him. Then a second later he stumbles back again somehow and has another undead fall on him, then he gets surrounded by 3 of them again as he gets dragged down towards the water by two of them, and then Sandor kills the one that's laying on top of him and that frees him from the predicament.
Such nonsense gobbledygook action for the sake of action.
I would like to remind you of back in season 6, during the episode "The door" when Brann had to flee from the cave as the dead had found him, and how leaf, the children of the forest, stayed back to kamikaze herself and give Bran a chance to escape and Hodor ends up holding the door, do you remember how quickly and brutally the wights just started stabbing her when she was laying on the floor? They took no time to stab her mortally multiple times in the neck. In the meantime, now, we get surrounded by 4-5 of them and they're giving out hugs.
the dragon that died was named after dany's evil brother, seems fitting it would become the night king's dragon.
Your Game Of Thrones reactions are the highlight of my week, awesome reaction guys. looking forward to House Of Dragon reactions lol
Dany has become quite smitten with her nephew.
At some point in season 6 I started to feel like the world was getting smaler. One of the best things in GOT imo was that the travel felt like it made sense. Season 7 feels jumpy to me. I am looking forward to the rest of your reactions. I love this. ^^ I had to show my roommate so many parts in this GOT reaction already. (he doesn't watch reactions, he just wanted to know why I am crying of loughter) xD
Sean's reaction to hearing the annulment was awesome
Everyone gets on the dragon and is ready to leave.
Jon: Hold on, I need more kills to get an achievement, lol
i guess you could call it a... Blue Eyes Wight Dragon.
Uncle Benjen had time to get on that horse with Jon. such bullshit lol
I don’t think the horse could carry two grown men.
In that weather? Unless it's also a turned undead horse i doubt it
He didn’t say that tho 😂
You just witnessed the big turn to stupidity. Its all downhill from here.
Absolutely agree with the travelling aspect. It's probably what annoys me most from season 7. It used to take literal seasons to get from westeros to the wall, and suddenly they start doing it within one episode. Maybe there are time skips, but it just seems a bit sloppy and lazy compared to previous seasons.
Jon wasting time fighting legit pissed me off. I blame Viserion's death on that. They could have written that better.
To be fair it was not a battle field the enemy surrended. Denerys burned prisoners of war
They refused to bend the knee, which could be called treason. Not much different from Jon Snow executing Janos Slynt for insubordination. Even Stannis did the exact same thing to many people for far less.
the show seems to be leaning into the idea that executing is fine, but executing by burning people alive is wrong, which i guess is interesting.
We the audience know that. The people in universe don't.
Can’t wait to see you guys watch all the lore and history videos after the series. Forewarning - There are spoilers for House Of The Dragon in one of them - the one dealing with The Dance of Dragons - might want to skip that one until after HOTD
HOTD is spoiled in GOT by Shireen as she is reading a book talking to Davos, i think in season 5. it was only watching this as a rewatch did i notice and it kinda got me mad cuz i was avoiding spoilers everywhere but they don't spoil much you don't know by the end of season 2 which is where we are now, but literally just two sentences from her spoil like the entire first season of the show.
Yeah true. I know that, but it’s a little comment and it’s lost in the grandness of everything else. The history and Lore goes in detail and focuses on it.
Crazy shit this episode.
pretty much everyone i knew at the time was on dany's side when she burned the Tarelys. She gave them a chance to kneel and they choose to die. But then you have every character acting like it was some great evil. If the point was to show her dark side, then she has to do something actually dark, especially when you've shown us Jon and Ned executing people that had more a claim to mercy than Dickon, and shown it as a strong character building moments when they carry out the punishment. Ned beheaded somone for abandoning the Night's Watch after he saw the undead and ran, Jon hung a literal child.
Morally, I somewhat agree with you.
Ned executed a guy for abandoning his post at the Night's Watch. Jon executed people for the usurping and murder of the Lord Commander. Dany executes the Tarlys for rebelling against the rightful queen.
That said, I don't think it was the best strategic decision. Similar to how Robb's decision to behead Lord Karstark wasn't a good strategic decision. Dany is trying to unite Westeros behind her, and they consider her a foreign invader. Burning the heads of major houses alive after your Dothraki horde just smashed their armies isn't going to change that opinion.
There's also the fact that in Ned's and Jon's case, it was duty. Whereas with Dany, it was her being angry that they defied her and refused to bend the knee. You see Jon struggle with the execution of Oliver and it haunts him. Whereas you don't see any remorse from Dany until she meets Sam and sees how her actions greatly hurt the man who saved Jorah.
Facts
The lock on your bathroom door you had to pick with a screwdriver to get back in because you accidentally locked it is better than those locks lol
Dropping in here once again to remind you guys that a new season of Rick and Morty is out and it's absolutely goated, lol
I feel like episode 6 is where the plot line in Winterfell starts to lose me. We all know Sansa is smart enough not to trust Littlefinger and sees his manipulations a mile away at this point. It just feels like the writers didn't know what to do for Arya and Sansa at this point, so decided for some meaningless family drama that could've been more meaningful had it been about addressing the divide between them as sisters—like you both talked a little about after their argument about the other not knowing what they'd been through. I guess they thought the threat of betrayal and death had to be wedged into every scene as though it would make it more interesting somehow.
Sansa and Arya plot line in this season was the first thing that i felt like i actively disliked. once they get to the end of it i can fully discuss my feelings, all i will say is they could have taken the same end results and told a much better story.
for the love of the old and the new gods please react to the Lore videos
Valar Morghulis
Seen is right, the travel time stops making sense this season.
they would have had to be on that island surround by undead for 2-3 days for a raven to travel from the wall to dragonstone. a dragon can fly pretty much anywhere in westeros in a matter of hours so dany showing up is okay, but a lot of the other characters just gain a fast travel ability
im glad he pointed that out. was worried they wouldnt pick up on it during their watchthrough of it
If ya'll love the war table now, just wait for HOTD.
I hope they start it after Thrones
What Days are "My Hero"?
For silver tier i think Wednesday?
there is no upload schedule for diamond
This is the episode that jumped the shark. Tyrion used to have such smart plans, but now he's just a plot device to nerf Dany. I'm amazed she even trusts him after his ideas lost her allies and a dragon. It felt like the writers just really needed an undead dragon, so they forced this plotline. The plot armor is wild too. Jon took a subzero bath and shook it off. The only named character that died was Thoros.
Dany: I'm taking the dragons.
Tyrion: That'd be a mistake.
Dany: I'm gonna do it anyway.
Dragon: *fuckin dies*
Commenter: How could Tyrion do such a thing??
get out of here with that ragebait
Not ragebait, I genuinely hate this episode.
I wouldn't say Tyrion is the reason she lost a dragon, he was literally begging her to stay, if anything Dany is the reason not Tyrion. But I agree with everything else you said.
It was Tyrion's stupid ass plan to go capture a wight in the first place. None of this would have happened otherwise.
Yeah it was his plan but he didn't ask anyone to partake in this mission, everyone volunteered, it was their decision, just as it was Dany's decision to take all her dragons to rescue them beyond the wall.
The Fellowship of the Wight
no wayyy