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I've never seen a person get defensive about criticism being a veil for bigotry that didnt turn around and immediately be bigoted when asked about it, they get defensive and think it's about them because they know they are part of the problem
While I don't completely agree with Su Yin being absolved of her crimes, I also understand her situation. When you grow up in a troubled home it can cause you to act out or do anything for validation. I did wild things that I regret now just to make my parents look my way. I don't think her personality comes from feeling superior but from having grown and evolved and living a fulfilling life. She even admits her short comings as a teen and as a mother and let's her children go out and chase their dreams.
Lin had every right to still resent her, but she was also carrying so much stress and anger from her childhood that she needed to heal from. I'm glad they are on better terms.
for 30 years though?
I don't think I ever hated LoK but I didn't like Korra's character (specifically seasons 1 and 2, and some small parts of 3). I prefer ATLA for how cohesive the overall plot is but that's not even the creator's fault with Korra, it's Nickelodeon's fault. But I will say this is one of those shows where, personally for me, I prefer seeing the side characters and their storylines over Korra's. I guess I just connected with the side characters more and Korra is just so different from myself and those I normally gravitate towards that I could never really connect with her character the way I do say Jinora, Bolin, and Opal to name a few. I will say I was one of the people who was incredibly excited to hear we were getting a female avatar when LoK was first announced so I was fairly disappointed when I just didn't connect with her character when I first started watching. As an adult rewatching, I feel like I understand Korra's character more but she does still definitely annoy me more than I would like lmao. Jinora is still my favorite character in the whole series, truly I could write full essays about how much I love her character.
avatar being only able to bend the "basic elements" wouldn't make sense lmfao, aang was able to bend lightning
I'm pretty sure I hate Su Yin. She's a flighty bitch who never takes responsibility for her actions, even now. She talks about being a different person, but that doesn't mean she should absolve herself from past decisions.
The whole point of redemption is to own up to your mistakes. How can we forgive her if she never once says sorry for what she KNOWS she did? Every time she "apologizes" she dances around the issue with "I wasn't perfect" or "I know I've made mistakes in the past". Own up to what you did and apologize to your sister for being a criminal, giving her trauma, and literally scarring her for life.
Lin is right. Su hasn't changed. She never says she's sorry. She just plays everything off like it's whatever, trying to paint Lin as completely irrational from the start. Then she tries to act innocent with vague statements of being a troubled family and Toph's parenting style, as if that excuses her own actions.
And when Lin tries to address that Su still acts like she did before, Su tries to turn it on Lin. She diverts attention to Lin being lonely and bitter, trying to blow things off. Then mentions Tenzin for no reason. Like, bitch. You get off scottfree from your actions, travel the world, start a city, and have a family. Yet you somehow still manage to act like you're above it all. She never takes accountability. She just tries to blow things over with vague statements. Su felt no guilt.
It doesn't help that Toph somehow puts Lin in trouble for doing her job. And we can tell it wasn't the first time Su got away with something like that. That's half the battle. But don't act like you weren't a personal bitch to Lin or that you didn't act like you were above everyone else and the law.
Looking back, it's infuriating. There's no "I'm sorry that I hurt you." Lin apologizes to Opal for taking things out on her. Su never apologized to Lin. And when Lin finally says they need to talk after 30 years, Su acts almost dismissive. Like, what the hell? If you really changed, you would have said sorry for what you did to your sister. You would have taken accountability. She took Rafiki's lesson of "It doesn't matter. It's in the past," completely the wrong way. The girl needs to be hit on the head with a stick.
To be slightly fair, Su does apologize to Lin at the end of the episode by telling her that she is sorry for giving her a hard time when they were younger. In addition, she does admit to being a rebel and perhaps it's meant to be less of "it doesn't matter. It's in the past" way and more a "she has moved on and tried to live better way.
Your points are understood and worth considering, and I think the issue is we don't spend enough time to develop this character and her full backstory and see how she has changed other than what we are told. Such as when she mentions how she worked things out with her mother and they wanted to work things out with Lin. Furthermore, it seems like the writers wanted the focus to be on Lin's development and subvert expectation. I.E. the audiences is thinking that Lin is behaving the way she is because Su may turn out to have this bad side we aren't seeing right away. However, it turns out that Lin is the one that needs to let go of past bitterness and make amends with her family.
Lastly, In regards to her bringing up Tenzin I'm sure some people will try to say that her saying that as a low-blown to push her sister's buttons is a typical sbiling thing although I'm not saying that makes it right because it isn't obviously ?.
You make many good points. Unfortunately Lin popped Naga’s ball so Su is better.
I have never Related more to a comment. Iike the hatred i have for Su Yin. She's so self absorbed and her gaslighting towards Lin is just so hard to watch. Literally though the fact that Lin is the one who has to be "enlightened" makes my blood boil.
I'll be honest. If I were Lin I would never have forgiven Suyin. All that smug superiority for being a criminal, then having the gall to think you can get away with your crimes, then scarring me for life for doing the right thing, never apologizing once for that, and finally actually getting away with everything with what's essentially a slap on the wrist leading to a life where you're happy with everything you could ever want.
There would never be a scenario where I forgive her even with an apology. It's just a shame that none of the other characters will be told why all this happened.
To be slightly fair, Su does apologize to Lin at the end of the episode by telling her that she is sorry for giving her a hard time when they were younger, but your points are understood ?.
I'm of the mind that Suyin is the daughter of Toph and sokka. I know it's just a theory but it could make sense.
i never understood the whole "korra is trash" crowd i mean sure it has it's problems but it's far from trash.
korra as a whole is trash, because season 2 apart from the avatar backstory of 2 episodes drags down the whole show by so much, season 1, and 2 having "this is the end of the show" endings, also brings down the show because it takes away from a cohesive plot being made with a major villain and makes each season a new villain, several character aspects of season 2, and 4, ruin characters that we like, season 2 completely ruined all their relationships, nearly everyone in that season is completely unlikeable and not relatable whatsoever, the only good all the way through season is this one, season 3. season 4 the actually well done portrayal of ptsd is praised by EVERYONE even people who hate the show, but that season also has lots of problems to it, specifically the weak main charactrer... a character who has no reason to be as power hungry as she is, there isn't a good reason for it, she is just all of a sudden bad after she was introduced as good and normal in season 3. thats not even talking about the fact that season 4 just turns into a giant fucking mech fight for no reason... there are REASONS this show is called trash by some. and these guys as well as others just saying "oh its definitely because korra is a girl" is just stupid... everyone loved every single female character in avatar the last airbender, even the previous avatars that were introduced also female... and we had 2 main character females in avatar the last airbender.
Many hate Korra's character.
I get some people not personally liking some of her personality traits, but many called her "mary sue" and acted like her several flaws aren't intentionally written that way. Also, A LOT of people (many of whom probably didn't finish the show) claim she never learns anything nor changes, which is just factually incorrect.
Some of her flaws (especially in Season 1 before she got character development:) impatient, short-tempered and could get unnecessarily violent (like actually violent and break stuff,) she was ignorant and emotionally immature due to her sheltered background (she yelled at the non-benders "you are oppressing yourselves!" because she couldn't come up with an actual argument and had zero knowledge about the topic and just overheard them and got mad and wanted to yell something,) and she later didn't want to admit she was scared which just made her more scared and reckless to overcompensate.
Sure, she is a very skilled bender and fighter, but that's not because she's meant to be some flawless strong female character or whatever. It's showing that she only focused on physical skills and strength while completely neglecting spiritual and emotional stuff. She's meant to be someone who was really confident and cocky and then went to the real world and was like "shit, this isn't what I thought it would be." As you have noted several times, the people in the world of Avatar tend to be critical of her. The reason she was in denial about being scared at first is because she had never actually felt vulnerable before in her life and didn't know how to deal with that.
Personally, I love all of this!
bruh mary sue became a topic of discussion with the star wars sequel trilogy... it literally didn't exist when legend of korra was started... i think you forget when legend of korra came out, it was 2012, it was before companies got shit talked for that stuff... i have watched all of legend of korra, and i had watched it all when it first aired as well, not a single person i have ever seen shit talked her character, if anything the disappointment gets thrown at nickelodeon for how they treated the show. season 2 is the worst offender in the entire show, if that season had been done differently, people wouldn't see the show as being as trash... at least the ones who do see it as trash (its got 73% score on rotten tomatoes and similar sites) not as good as avatar the last airbender but not a bad show. and i think the reasons its not bad is because of the good villains in season 1, and 3... if those iconic villains and threats they bring weren't in it, i think the show would be way lower rated. because by god season 2 and 4 villains are the worst definition you can have of a villain
Speaking of adding or subtracting hair making a character, subtract the hair from Jinora - you get aang
See I love the legend of Korra but my issue is sometimes it feels like Korra isn't really necessary or actively makes things worse.
An example of this is book 2 that entire conflict wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Korra and Jinora is a massive part of why it got resolved after saving Korra.
Book 1 the conflict mainly gets resolved by team avatar and not Korra the only thing she really did to resolve it was blow amon out of a window. Asami Mako amd Bolin helped defeat the occupying army and Amons brother is the person who actually dealt with him.
I love the show but I have definitely enjoyed it more thinking of Asami, Bolin and Mako being the real protagonists.
Hard disagree, if anything I feel like Asami and Mako don't do enough.
Imagine not liking Korra because of a woman Avatar when we've had goats like Kyoshi and Yangchen. And i also love how dynamic they made the characters and how less perfect they made the adult versions of old characters which makes for more dynamic characters of this show. Also I am glad you guys are enjoying this show so much
I've seen it many times. A lot of people hate female characters with "bad attitudes" or are less than happy and supportive all the time. Those same people would have no problem if those same traits were in a male character
39:11 no she is wrong. She is very very wrong. She’s a bad chief of police. Any time someone in law enforcement helps keep their kids out of prison, they’re immediately bad at their jobs. If you’re going to uphold the law then you need to punish criminals accordingly. You can’t give special treatment to your own family. If you do you’re not only bad at your job but you’re a hypocrite.
41:20 omg I completely forgot about that
When it comes to the Korra hate I understand how her personality could rub people the wrong way but saying the series as a whole is terrible is what bugs me. Most people stopped at Season 1 or 2 and never watched season 3 or 4.
I remember seeing a video with a title akin to "badly written female characters" with Korra included in the thumbnail and then the creator said in the comments that he never watched seasons 3-4.
I just can't say enough how much I LOVE this season and the show itself. It's getting absolutely crazy. Thanks y'all for the recent episodes, waiting for Korra is always a pain because I just absolutely love to rewatch this show with you guys!!
About Ruff's comment about people not liking Korra just because she is a female Avatar, TLK actually came out before this whole 'it's a woke character' bs we have now. In fact it even pre-empted what I like to call the 'Mary Sue' time period that came around the release of Force Awaken labelling every single female character as a Mary Sue. So if you actually go into old post from 2014 criticising TLK you rarely will ever see people bring up the fact that she is a female character. Granted the criticism they have is still stupid and mostly revolves around why it's literally not ATLA 2.0. Having said that, if TLK came out today it would for sure be called woke.
Na, people didn't use the term "woke" but all the same "female lead == bad" stigma was still around.
This was very much during the 'Mary Sue" era. From what I remember, that really amped up during Twilight book era, which was before/during this. Even if people weren't disliking Korra specifically because she's a girl, it is A LOT easier to criticize female characters than male characters. It's because of internalized misogyny. Even I have to catch myself with it sometimes.
One very specific example I can give is when Unalaq forced Korra to open the Northern spirit portal because he was going to destroy Jinora's soul. I've heard quite a few people that called her "the worst avatar" because of that. Yet, what would Aang have done when he couldn't even bring himself to kill Ozai?
You make it sound like Korra being female wasn’t a big deal back then when in fact that’s not true. Mike & Bryan explicitly stated in an interview that Nickelodeon had a problem with Korra being female. I was very active in the avatar fandom on multiple platforms during both atla & lok airing. The majority of Korra haters were people mad we weren’t getting gaang focused sequel, there were A LOT that openly stated the series would be better with a male lead. That Korra was “too masculine” and there were an ungodly amount of complaints about the finale, I remember bryke getting a lot of hate and harassment solely because of the last few minutes of the series.
I do think Suyin should’ve gone to Republic City to apologize. She was the one who should’ve made the effort. I’m trying to imagine how I’d feel if I was responsible for a permanent scar on my older sister’s face and I’d have a much different attitude than Su.
I agree but there's a key line where Lin says that her and Toph resolved all this years ago and that Lin choose to hold on to that anger and not work on letting it go.
Sue says*
I really still think Suyin should have reckoned with her mom retiring because she was guilty for protecting her.
Zaheer with a shaved head looks like a 90s Henry Rollins, from the Henry Rollins Band
Oddly enough, I've seen Dez Cadena more because he toured with The Misfits. I've always enjoyed hearing Rollins talk tho, mostly about weightlifting
On point with the post episode chat!
“Do we trust Varrick?”
Me, a Varrick simp: With every fiber of my being
Well he only did like 2 bad things in the last season, and with good reason. Hell if he succeeded they'd have an army helping them in the finale
". . . and with good reason." You gotta be kidding me. Amplifying war tensions to profit off of it? That's okay by you? Found the Raytheon employee...
It kinds of funny how almost everyone in the Gaang turned out to be kind of shitty prents. The only exception was ironically Zuko, the guy had half his face burned by his asshole dad.
Well, Toph had issues with her own parents and the way she grew up (too little freedom,) while Aang was raised in a society that doesn't have traditional family units.
I wonder if the new animated ATLA gang grown up movie will explore all these love interests in Toph's life? ?
You misspelled "fuckbois".
I love Korra, actually prefer it over last airbender slightly :-)
Same
Fun Fact: Suyin was voiced by Anne Heche (rest in peace). I do hope people know who that is.
Anne Heche died?!
Yeah from complications from a car accident
"Complications"? She was blitzed out of her mind and t-boned someone's house with her Cooper Mini. She burned to a crisp in the driver's seat.
A second test was later done that actually proved she wasn’t on drugs at the time. Unfortunately, she had a history of intense mental illness and psychotic breaks. This was probably one of them. Reading her biography on Wikipedia is like reading a checklist of terrible things, sad to say, and that’s just the capper on the long list.
Silly me, I forgot the other fun fact: Young Suyin is voiced by Michaela Jill Murphy (Alias, Jessie Flower) who voiced Toph in the original Avatar.
Officer: “You’re not gonna like this Chief Toph”
*gives her the arrest report
Toph: “Well it SOUNDS like a piece of paper but I’m guessing you’re referring to what’s ON the sheet of paper.”
Yooo
when is new episode
Ya yo ya yooo